Saturday Special – The Right To Defend

Good Morning people. I’m back with another post. This one is likely to cost me some friends but I cannot help that. I’m not going to apologize to anyone for who or what I am or, my beliefs. It isn’t going to be a fun read so if that’s what you’re hoping for, you’ve been duly warned that it isn’t. You may want to go and read oneย  of Empress’s many fine posts. Personally, I’d highly recommend the RHONJ reuion 2027 post.

Still with me? Okay, here we go. I’m going to show you another video with the warning, it’s graphic, to say the least.

There is a lot of material in this video I could have chosen to comment on. As you may have guessed from my title, the part I choose to comment on is the bus driver ending the confrontation with his passenger. In case you chose not to view it, I’ll recap it for you. A Cleveland bus driver was having an argument with one of his female passengers. I don’t know what started the argument but I have my suspicions. The passenger at one point hits the bus driver and his response, after he stops the bus, is to deliver a devastating uppercut to the woman’s jaw, followed by throwing her and her belongings off of the bus.

I said a couple weeks ago that I do not condone violence and I’ve said repeatedly, I don’t condone hitting women. Society tells me that’s how it should be. A man should NEVER hit a woman. Really? We aren’t talking here about a man who went home and beat the shit out of his wife, we are talking about a man who responded to being hit, himself. I will add, that when she hit him as well as while she was screeching in his ear, she put the lives of every single person on that bus, at risk. There are probably a number of different ways the driver could have handled that. He could have simply removed her from the bus. He could have called the police and had them do it. To name a couple.

I find myself asking, when I see something like this, at what point, would *I* cross that line and what would it take to push me to that point? I know I’m capable of doing it and I believe that everybody, has the right to defend himself or herself. Society tells me to just sitย  there and take it in this case because, again, it’s NEVER right to hit a woman. Again, Really? If you watched the video, you heard my answer to that. If you act like a man, I’m going to treat you like one. I’m reasonably certain, that in this case, I would have done the exact same thing. Now that I’ve lost half or more of you as friends, I’ll continue and see if I can drive the rest of you away.

I said above and earlier that, again, I do not condone violence regardless of the who or what. That doesn’t mean however that I don’t believe I have the right to protect myself against it, by any means necessary up to and including, deadly force. Yes, I went there. I think that bus driver had every right to defend himself as well. Part of me thinks he went there a little too easily but again, I don’t know what happened before people started recording the incident. I mean, most people don’t just record a bus ride now do they? Something was going on before people decided to capture it for all posterity. I mean, did she hit him only that one time or had he already turned the other cheek to have it hit as well? I say that woman got exactly what she had coming to her. That is, from what I viewed on the video alone.

I’ve never been a personal witness to anything like this and I’ve never been confronted by it but, it always comes back to another saying I like to use. Don’t start none, won’t be none. For those of you who don’t know what that means, it’s really simple. Don’t hit somebody if you don’t want what may come flying back at you. Gender really doesn’t factor into that from my perspective. I’ve seen many recordings of such incidents and in most cases, it took a lot to evoke a similar response and in every one of them, I say it was justified.

So, before I hit the publish button here at WP, I’m going to ask this question. How many of you women out there, honestly believe you have the right to hit a man, AND believe in the societal shield, that there shouldn’t be an equal response? Before any of you get it twisted, I’m not asking you to give up your right to defend yourselves, by any means necessary including deadly force if need be. That is a right that is equal across the board as far as I’m concerned.

Those of you who are still with me, I’ll see you next time. Those who are not, that’s your right as well. I said in the fourth sentence of this piece, I’m not going to apologize to anyone, for who and what I am.

About MelTheHound

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42 Responses to Saturday Special – The Right To Defend

  1. Donna says:

    Welllllllllllll OKKKKKKKKKKKK When raising my young sons I told them if they picked on someone bigger than themselves they should expect to get their butts kicked. If they picked on someone smaller than themselves I would kick their butt. I also told them that they didn’t have to stand there and let someone smaller hit them, if necessary you have the right to restrain them. It worked out in their favor when a girl started punching my son even when he was walking away, he restrained her. When the parent came to my door screaming, threating me, I told him I was proud of my son, he did exactly what I taught him, he restrained your daughter that was punching him. Guess what, he smacked his daughter for telling a lie.

    • melthehound says:

      I’m glad pops smacked her in that case. What was your son to do however if he let her go and she continued swinging?

      • Donna says:

        She wanted his bike, he said no. She kept trying to take it away from him, she was older, after restraing her and she calmed down, he drove off on his bike.

        I was a young divorced mother at that time, this man came to my door screaming at me. Because I was divorced the fathers came to the door to scream/threaten me.

        One time my brother came over and caught the next door neighbor man yelling at me through my screen door, my brother gave him a piece of his mind. I did not allow my sons to go on their property. I eventually had to take them to our family court in our city. They told them that if they couldn’t keep their children under control, the courts would press charges against them.

        • melthehound says:

          SMH. There’s a world of difference between a man who would throw a punch to defend himself and one who would harass a woman because he believes no one is there to help her.

          • Donna says:

            It was a really ROFLMAO moment when I told the mediator that I didn’t allow my sons in their yard, LOL he said that’s right we don’t want them in my yard.

  2. jeang says:

    I agree with your thinking MTH

  3. not THAT Jill says:

    “What kind of man are you?”
    When a woman screams this question at a man-what does she want the answer to be? Does she want the man to say-
    “Im the kind of man who will take your verbal and physical assault and say and do nothing”? Does this make him a man?
    I never understood a woman asking this question b/c what is the right answer?
    I have wonderful men in my life-“real men”-you know what what I mean? Men who love women and respect women. Men who have a certain way of protecting women without making a women feel weak. Men who know strong women are not trying to take away their “manhood”. Men who love a good “boys night out” and men who love a day with the kids.
    I also have wonderful women in my life-women who know that being strong doesn’t mean you need your man to feel weak. Women who know that getting men to fight for them is immature and dangerous. Women who expect to be treated fairly by men b/c they treat men fairly.
    But I also know women who push. Push men into corners when they know the out-come. I know women who will tell a man to hit them-“come on hit me-see what happens to you” (this is so redic but I have seen it) I know women who tell their men “See that guy? He grabbed my (insert body part)-what are you going to do about it?” when the guy never touched her. And sadly I know women who will get in a mans face and scream things like “You are not a man-look at you-what are you going to do?” and totally expect the man to do nothing. Then she will berate him for doing nothing. “What kind of man are you? You are scared of a woman?” This is the worst b/c it makes or breaks the man. It makes the man ask the question “What kind of man am I?”
    This girl on the bus was a pusher-she used everything she had to rile the situation up and then she did what no woman should-she hit him. And then she found out what kind of man he was…

    • Jill, That was probably the most well reasoned and thoughtful description of the good, the bad and the ugly that exists among us humans.

    • melthehound says:

      I’m just going to put this out there….. I will NEVER allow myself to be put in that club type prove your love situation. If I have to go kick someone’s ass or worse, get my own ass kicked, to prove ‘what kind of man I am’ to a woman, She Ain’t Worth Having to begin with. Know what I mean?

  4. ItWasTorture! says:

    I totally agree with you, Mel. My mom used to say “Without a Lady, there is no a Gentleman” and she was right. To lose me as a friend and a reader, you would have to be another person you are not. Your take on this incident is fair and balanced. JMHO.

  5. Just Wondering in Jersey says:

    Still with you MTH

  6. misszippity says:

    Right on! Looky there – 6 out of 6 are still your friends!!

  7. mth, You wrote “Iโ€™ve never been a personal witness to anything like this and Iโ€™ve never been confronted by it”. Well, I have. From the 14 years I spent pushing a cruiser, I can state, unequivocally, that women, all too often, are the aggressors and instigators of an awful lot of violent attacks. In my experience, when they can’t get their desired response simply by being mouthy, they’ll escalate the incident into a full-blown slug-fest. Most of the injuries I received and insults that were hurled came from women. I’ve been spit on, bitten and called the “c” word. I’ve had a woman fracture my sternum during an arrest, one who punched me in the mouth and another who slashed me with a knife, the same knife she had used to slice both the Thanksgiving turkey and her husband, who, somehow, got her riled up simply by watching football. Sometimes their attacks were because I, as another woman, failed to sympathize with their arguments, so, from their skewed perspective, I became the enemy. Other times it was because they were so blinded by rage that they didn’t care who or what was in front of them, or whether you were wearing a badge and a uniform. Sadly, too many times these things happened in front of their children. So, do I think you have a right to defend yourself against a woman’s onslaughts? Hell yea. At the end of the day, you have the right to do whatever is necessary to go home to your family in one piece. Gender is irrelevant.

    • ItWasTorture! says:

      Amen to your post, Empress! and “Gender is irrelevant”!

    • Polonium 210 says:

      Amen. I have personal knowledge that many women push men verbally and physically (pushing, shoving or slapping the guy) because the woman wants him to lose control. It’s a sick game a few women play. I think Taylor Armstrong is that kind of woman.

    • melthehound says:

      I think you’re a stronger woman than I am a man. Unless I REALLY had to have that job, getting out of one of those situations alive, would have been enough for me. It’s pretty sad, when the police need protection to keep from getting tore up.

    • BeenThereDoneThat says:

      I would be very interested in your perspective on this situation. Many years ago, when I was in school and broke, I parked my car in a residential neighborhood on a quiet side street. There was a 2-hour limit, for which the penalty was a ticket. A woman got angry that I was parked in front of her house for more than 2 hours and she called the police. A patrol car came out. He accidentally misread my tags and when the number he called in came back to a different car, he concluded that the plates were stolen and he called a tow truck. I arrived as the car was being lifted but the officer was already gone. The two truck operator refused to call him. I called 911 and they refused to send him back. So my car was towed 20 miles away. The impound lot was in a remote area, not near public transportation. It was dark and cold by the time I got the cash and got there – to find they were closed. I called the police station and told them I couldn’t get my car, it was dark and late, and as this was their fault, they needed to get the impound lot manager to come out and release my car. The manager showed up and released my car to me after I paid $164. My husband meanwhile had arrived and we were at a nearby gas station. It was closed. I was too upset to drive. We were in the car, doors locked, windows rolled up when the original officer showed up. I was angry and upset and yelling and cursing. He heard me. He then drew his gun, insisted I get out of the car, and said he would arrest me for disturbing the peace. I told him I would call his commanding officer and then sue him for abuse of power and false arrest, as there was no one around except me and my husband. He backed down and left. I never got an apology from the police but they did eventually send me $164.

      I have been mistrusting of the police ever since.

      • This has nothing to do with the topic of this post but you wanted to air your grievance, so I’ll respond to your comment. If you’re asking me to Monday morning quarterback a situation with only one side of the story, it’s not going to happen. From what you wrote, it appears that the police department complied with your demand to summon the manager of the impound lot, you got both your car and money back, and suffered some inconvenience. If you want to judge every man and woman in uniform based on this incident, then there’s probably nothing I could say to change your mind. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was yelled at, cursed at and threatened with a lawsuit. Walk a mile in those shoes and then get back to me.

        • BeenThereDoneThat says:

          Sorry it wasn’t clear. I was upset that he drew his gun. I was in a closed, locked car and angry and upset. I don’t think being out in the middle of nowhere at night is “inconvenienced.” Before my husband got there, I was scared to be there alone. I thought what he did was a gross overreaction, unreasonable under the circumstances. I felt as though he was “striking me” with his actions and his threats.

          • As a woman, I can certainly understand how afraid you were, being alone, in a strange place and in the middle of the night. I can also understand some of a different kind of fear from my perspective as a retired police officer. I’ve been in situations where I was alone, without backup, faced with a driver and or passenger(s) in a car whose behavior was so alarming that I felt it necessary to draw my service weapon. My training, and the training of all police officers is to expect the unexpected and be prepared to defend yourself. Afterwards, when these incidents were over – and thank God, each one of them ended peacefully – I found myself shaking so badly that I wasn’t even able to handle the car keys. So, I’d like you to understand that not every officer out there is trying to simply intimidate or frighten people or abuse their authority. There are many more who really do respect the weight and extent of their powers, and use them thoughtfully and carefully.
            I don’t know of any profession that doesn’t have it’s own 10% club. I’ve been to bad doctors and garage mechanics but I haven’t given up on medical care or getting my car repaired. I really hope that I’ve given you some idea as to how it looks from the other side and that it will allow you to reconsider your feelings about all of those other folks in uniform.

            • BeenThereDoneThat says:

              I appreciate your response. I am not judging police officers. I am afraid of them. There was no reason for him to even approach the car. I did not ask for him or any other officer to come to the gas station. I asked the dispatcher to contact the impound lot manager. I don’t even know how he knew we were at the gas station, which was about 3/4 mile from the impound lot. Maybe he just stumbled upon us. I was terrified. I understand your point of view, but I had a gun pointed at me. Until this past summer, when someone taught me how to shoot, I’ve never handled a gun or seen a gun being used except in the context of hunting or target practice. I was really scared and I still get really nervous whenever I see a police officer.

  8. Three Blessed says:

    Everyone has the right to defend themselves within reason…if someone slaps you, you can slap them back but not stab them…Get what I mean??

    • melthehound says:

      Yes.. Sort of let the punishment fit the crime. My goal however would be to keep someone from hitting me again and again and again.

  9. mygirlsmom says:

    I don’t like to rush to judgement without knowing the full story. But based on what I saw on the video only, I think the bus driver “went there” too quickly. But as you said, there might be more that we didn’t see that would make his response seem more reasonable to me. I believe that he had every to defend himself and a duty to ensure the safety of the other passengers, but I think he went too far with the uppercut to the jaw. From what I saw, the punch wasn’t necessary, simply throwing this woman off the bus would have sufficed. That being said, I respect your opinion on this matter MTH an do understand your point of view.

  10. sweetnessnbubba says:

    I would say that when you hit someone, you give up the right to say, hitting is wrong… however, from what I saw on the tape (and as you pointed out we have no idea that went on before) the driver was ramping up the drama with this woman, verbally… Thats not professional. I worked and still do to a certain extent in customer relations.. When you work with the public, your supposed to defuse a situation, not amp it up… I have said sorry so many times outloud, while adding, I am sorry your a moron in my head, but NOT speaking it… If the driver had refused to engage her, simply stopped the bus and told her that she could get out on her own steam or the police would be called. it wouldnt have escalated… and I will say, as much as I think she was wrong to smack him, his answering aggression was a LOT more aggressive.. it felt like she was instigating, he was feeding into it and amping up the agression… Not good… If he was my employee, I would fire him or at the very least go to anger management lessons, because as an employer you will be held liable for his actions..

    I used to work as a bartender, and like Empress I saw many women who hit first, kept hitting and then cried foul when they were hit back.. I think you can get away with that in a mano on mano situation. but the second you put it in a business setting, it changes the rules… So while I understand and can even agree in the abstract, with Mel, in a business setting, in this litigious society, putting your hands on someone, unless you are clearly defending yourself (which from what the guy was saying, he really wasnt doing) is just not acceptable.. whether the customer was male or female..

    • melthehound says:

      Reactionary rather than thought out, even if for a second, never ends well for anyone.

      • sweetnessnbubba says:

        exactly! while I heartily sympathize with the driver, from the employers position he is going to get fired, most likely..

  11. Lisa Renee says:

    Good Morning my friend, yup still here. That was a disturbing video, where do you find this stuff lol?? This video & your opinion on it has nothing to do with self defense or gender. Raising my daughter I taught her that if she is hit by a boy or girl to never retaliate unless in self defense in that she is being jumped by more than one person. I told her that you report the incident but to never hit back. It ensures she stays the victim & the incident would be dealt with in the proper forum, the principals office not the school yard. She was also taught, unlike me, she can not hit anyone, ever. I was taught if someone hits you (boy or girl) & you don’t kick their ass my mom would beat my ass for not sticking up for myself. Fast forward 20 years & PC times have changed so my message to my kid was to not put her self in a position where I can’t defend her. As for the video…. that bus driver cold cocked her behind & IMO she earned it. I am so exhausted by the double standard. Just like when Empress was in uniform, she was open season from both genders. What I saw on this video is that they BOTH “caught a case”. The bus driver should have stopped the bus & called the cops. He chose not to & in the criminal system he was wrong. The bus driver will rightfully (IMO) claim self defense & it will be given no weight. I am going to guess if this video makes it to court the bus driver will receive a harsher outcome than the demure, sensitive non confrontational wall flower “young lady” who will be given therapy the state will pay for since she was so violated. I also despise pot stirring women (melissa gorga) who egg their man on to prove their love or protect them from disrespect they were exposed to, real or imagined. It is a tough call, there is no reason for a man to hit a women & vice versa BUT if the woman swings first then all bets are off. Yes a punch from a man will take you out(as we just watched) but the woman swinging knew that going in. I’m a scrapper from way back, I never swung at a man. I am not one of those women that believe I should be able to put my hands on a man & be exempt from a reaction because society says men can not hit women. If I hit a man & he does not hit me back but calls the cops, then I am where I belong.
    You are a class act, here & elsewhere, I count on you never changing. I may not comment alot but I am reading everything you post, my best to you & the hound! Lisa

    • melthehound says:

      Thank you Lisa.. In part, I have to respectfully disagree though. Mainly with the top part of your post but speaking as a non parent. I think even kids, boys and girls alike, have the right to defend themselves. Walk away first, if possible but for many aggressors, that only will intensify the harassment (for lack of a better word).

      Edit to add… When he got up and walked over to where she was and then belted her, that’s where I think he was a little too quick, to go there. Charges on both of them but I don’t know what the aftermath (or beforemath) actually are.

  12. Polonium 210 says:

    Great topic MTH. Fearless as always.

  13. Stacey says:

    I agree Mel. I don’t are what your gender, if you act like an animal all bets are off. Lets get real here…if she had hit him just right and knocked him out not only would she be risking the safety of all the folks on the bus but also innocent bystanders and cars on the street. I have to say, if I had been a passenger on the bus I would have acted as soon as she hit the driver! Thanks for the thoughtful topic ๐Ÿ™‚

    • melthehound says:

      I have a fresh crisp clean $100 bill that says she doesn’t give a shit about anybody but herself. Personally, I think she was late for her craigslist singles hookup because the bus was late (as most usually are) and was bitching at the driver the second she got on the bus. I said above, I probably would have done just as the bus driver did. It would take a lot to really push me to that point. What I more likely would have done is this. Drive to the next bus stop so those passengers could get off the bus and go about their day. Then call the dispatcher and park the bus refusing to move it until she got off of the bus. Let the other passengers remove her.

  14. windycitywondering1 says:

    The question makes me laugh. What the video showed was not enough to make an educated guess much less an answer that he was justified in his actions. I have not clue one as to why that confrontation escalated to what you showed. What other courses of action could have or did happen? Were other passengers being threatened? Was the driver or that women on drugs, alcohol, or suffering from a medical condition? Neither of the parties involved handled themselves or the situation in a defensible manner.
    As far as hitting goes – as a mom – I taught my boys it is never “right” to hit anyone (man, woman or beast). And they were also taught that should they be in the proximity of a disturbance then they immediately call 911. Oh, and they were taught that law enforcement is to be respected and are there to assist in the protection of everyone.

  15. Judy says:

    Just want to add that I’m not going anywhere. I love coming here. You’re my kinda folks!

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